Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. (3ft-3in wide). What do you mean it doesn't adhere? Is it plausible for constructed languages to be used to affect thought and control or mold people towards desired outcomes? We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. We sponge water onto the cement board. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. Personnaliser mon exprience l'aide de cookies, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile), Need advice on bathroom remodel - using hardiebacker boards, HELP! Will use the Schluter Shower system. It's still applied to cement board. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. The surface of Wedi is perfect for bonding. Ready to join the 100,000+ homeowners matched with pros? For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. Important to overlap seams in a shingle method. Kerdi board, on the other hand, is an extruded polystyrene foam panel. Why is this the case? The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. 3. Also - use a good thinset. I would avoid Hardi, as Avanti is right that it is thirsty. While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. A hundred times better to have too much before you comb than too little. This will help protect the cement board from water damage, and is often a specific type of coating designed for use with cement boards. A place where magic is studied and practiced? I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. Cement board sucks up the moisture and as a result, the kerdi doesn't always stick as well to cement board. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. . Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. there should be a small gap between the backer board and the tub. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? Porcelain and ceramic tiles are stiff and hard materials, so if they are installed on an unlevel or bouncy surface they are highly susceptible to cracking. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. And for a more secure fit, you can also use screws. Tile can be installed directly over Kerdi-Board using the thinset method; For use with ceramic and natural stone tile; Return Policy; California residents. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. To put things into perspective, consider that a tile floor is made up of three layers: the subfloor, the underlayment, and the tile surface you walk on. Aquadefense is approved by IAPMO for use as a shower pan liner, but be sure to check your local building codes, as some areas of the country still require the PVC liner. Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. I imagine we could share some good stories. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. But there are downsides. We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. Thanks. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. They are square. Moisture resistant can cause similar problems, and there is absolutely no advantage to it. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. Personally, I like standard drywall. This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label. About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. Its important to note that Kerdi membrane is not a structural base layer, so plywood should be installed and reinforced as necessary based on load requirements. that's home depot homeowner installation method. Installation. Ditra is manufactured in a 3'3 width and comes in various roll lengths (54sf, 150sf, and 323 sf). Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . For the floor, he should've put a mortar bed, then a membrane that goes over the curb, then another mortar bed. Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-box-3','ezslot_2',173,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-box-3-0');Yes, you can put Kerdi membrane over cement board. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? ", Signed,Never Hung Kerdi A Day In Her Life. Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. Contact us: 888-472-4588 If installing large format tiles (over 15"), be sure to give the Aquadefense at least 8 hours to cure first. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. ;). Because it can let some moisture wick through it, you have two choices: put a moisture barrier behind it to protect the structure, or, waterproof the front of it. Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). The cement board core itself is not waterproof, but it can withstand water without falling apart. #3 This is a DIY site. Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. I agree that gypsum seems very questionable anywhere in the wet areas of a shower. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. We are DIYers who have already remodeled one bathroom successfully, but this is our first time using The Schluter shower system. Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. The 30-in. Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. An additional layer of sealant can also be applied on the seams for extra protection and water resistance. There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. Why you use cement board? Cement board is known to be very heavy and somewhat difficult to cut. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? It may take more than 1 beer:). For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. And second, since its foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. x 96 in. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. If done according to manufacturers instructions, it will seal nicely. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. But a mortar bed does have advantages. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. Cement board is the industry standard when it comes to tile substrates and the most preferred among professionals when installing porcelain or ceramic tile. A complete schluter shower kit is like $700-$900 depending on the size - this includes the pitched foam shower pan. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. It is a fast process that is hard to mess up if you do it right. When installing KERDI with . To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. The perfect fold is tricky and many of my first steam showers where built without the sealed slip joint. Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. In . Kerdi Membrane is a product of Schluter systems. If so, that means breaking up the floor pan. Once youre sure that the membrane is completely dry, you can then move forward with tiling. We recommend our users to update the browser. Is this overkill? Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. You troweled on thinset combing it out then pressed the Kerdi into place? I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. LONDON. I hang Kerdi on cement board and fibercement board all the time. Any recommendations? I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. It worked well - just like wallpapering. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. In my. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. Can I install Kerdi board just on the walls of my shower and use a PVC membrane on the floor? Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . What was the indicator that let you know that spritzing was not enough, and that you needed to 'sponge' the Hardi? #4 You could be adding a good 1000 pounds to your install too. This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . WATCH HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRLd2HYhbU&list=PLO47JMsdYGrkxM_ZkOc3lMnsVhTqj80bB#justdoityourself #lovingit #p. First, felt paper is stapled to the floor and covered with expanded metal lath. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. Kerdi-Board is an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with reinforcing material on both sides, covered by fleece webbing for effective anchoring of thin-set mortar. Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. Thanks to Mongo's earlier post, we knew we'd have to spritz the Hardi -- but found that even that wasn't quite enough. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. How "tidy" does the kerdi band need to be? Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. I would get someone else. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. Slap it up comb it out, leave every ridge tall and perfect. The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. you should still water proof with a liquid membrane product like RedGuard. ! The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Wedi showers feature a pre-sloped base that is already installed. The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. Welcome to the site. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. 4. The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. We want that inside corner able to move. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. 173 upvotes. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Your email address will not be published. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. We use a pump action garden sprayer and its usually dry by the time we clean the sprayer. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. I also used a larger sized trowel than the one recommend by Schluter. Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? I also used the Kerdi drain. What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. So long as the seams and joint areas are properly prepared, the panels can also provide waterproofing. Do you have any pictures? Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! Ratings (91) (5) (91) (3 . True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). Will use the Schluter Shower system. Following the correct application of Kerdi membrane over cement board will ensure a successful waterproofing installation and lasting results for your tile project. Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through.